Solving the Crisis of Homelessness with Sandra Clarkson
Melanie Nicholson addresses the big topic of homelessness with guest Sandra Clarkson, Executive Director of the Calgary Drop-In Centre, in this episode. Sandra is focused on creating opportunities for long-term systemic improvements for Canadians in need, and paints a clear picture of what is being done and why so much more is needed.
Sandra started her career in the nonprofit sector doing frontline work with sexually exploited minors which made her realized she loved working with vulnerable populations. That led to a journey of working with issues of homelessness and marginalized populations throughout Canada and the US before starting her own consulting company and eventually winding up at the Drop-In Centre. Sandra is very clear that there is no one type of person experiencing homelessness. She describes people from 18 to 90 years of age, women, men, non-binary, Indigenous, refugees, and so many more, all people who access the DI’s services with various needs. What Sandra provides Melanie is a very thorough picture of what housing means to homeless individuals, how the right house is as important as just having a house, the importance of interconnected support systems, and what everyone can do immediately to start viewing affordable housing and homeless individuals as neighbors instead of ‘other’. It’s a vital conversation on shifting the homeless dynamic of our cities.
“You know, we hear a lot of talk and words around inclusive communities and community for all. They're really just words, I think, when you look at the amount of nimbyism that comes up for any development that even mentions affordable housing. There's so much stigmatization and mythology, quite frankly, around who needs affordable housing and what what affordable housing would bring to a community. And I think what we really need to focus on is moving from nimby to yimby so that communities are saying, Yes, in my backyard. We want to have diverse socioeconomic statuses in our neighborhood. We want people of all shapes and sizes and abilities in our neighborhood.” - Sandra Clarkson
About Sandra Clarkson
Sandra Clarkson is the Executive Director of the Calgary Drop-In Centre. With 25 years of experience working with vulnerable populations, Sandra brings a wealth of experience as an advocate for marginalized Canadians, a champion of community collaboration, and an expert in operational excellence. Sandra’s vision is to create opportunities that result in long-term systemic improvements for citizens in need.
In addition to serving on several non-profit boards, Sandra has provided strategic planning, assessment and other management consulting services to non-profits through her own business, MSH Strategies Inc.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Contact Melanie Nicholson | Melanie Lynn Communications Inc.
Contact Sandra Clarkson
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Transcript
Melanie Nicholson: [00:00:03] Welcome to It's a Theory. I'm your host, Melanie Nicholson, and today is a big topic. We are talking about the theory behind ending chronic homelessness in a city. Sandra Clarkson has been with the Calgary Drop-In Center since January 2017 and is committed to ending chronic homelessness in the city through the power of collaboration, transparency and accountability. Sandra is also co-chair of the Canadian Shelter Transformation Network with a focus on propelling the movement to housing-focused emergency shelters as the standard for front-line homeless service across Canada. Above all, she's focused on creating opportunities that result in long-term systemic improvements for citizens in need. Sandra has a theory and a clear vision of where communities can go when we're talking about housing-focused emergency shelters. We get really candid and frank about this issue, and it really demonstrates what can happen when you put theory into practice. Let's talk.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:01:05] Sandra, welcome to the podcast.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:01:07] Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:01:10] I'm really excited for this conversation. I think it's such an important conversation to have and I want to start a bit with your story so people who don't know you, how did you end up at the Drop In Center Calgary? Everyone knows it as the DI but for people listening outside of Calgary, how did you get there?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:01:28] Well, it was a long journey. You know, I started my career in the nonprofit sector as doing frontline work with sexually exploited teens or minors. And that was really kind of my first foray into frontline work and exposure to, you know, working with really vulnerable populations and absolutely loved it. And then I ended up leaving that work and joining a group of anonymous donors that were granting their funds throughout Western Canada and the Midwest, US. And they were looking for somebody who was networked in the nonprofit sector in the city of Calgary. Somehow I landed that, spent the next 16 years of my career working with that group, learned a lot around issues of homelessness, vulnerable people, marginalized populations throughout both Canada and the US. From there, I started my own consulting company called MSH Strategies and really focused on the nonprofit sector, worked on building capacity, did a lot of strategic planning pieces, a number of interim executive director roles, really, you know, problem-solving, troubleshooting and did a lot of work with a great colleague of mine, Dr. Susan McIntyre. We did a lot of partnerships together. And from there, the former executive director at the Calgary Drop-In Center, Debbie Newman, had approached me to see if I was interested in coming on as associate executive director as part of her succession planning.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:03:12] And, you know, I never thought I would be an employee again, having my own consulting gig. But what intrigued me about the work at the DI was, you know, the size and the scope of the organization and the reach and the potential that it could have. I knew I was not going to get bored anytime soon and that there was lots of amazing opportunities for the agency in terms of really expanding its reach, its breadth, its depth and its impact. And so that is what brought me to the DI. I think, you know, throughout all of my career, I've been really focused on marginalized populations, even as a funder, you know, homelessness was one of the areas of my specialization through those portfolios. And just have always been drawn to working with populations that traditionally have not really had much of a voice. And it's just, it's something that's really, really important to me. And so that's how I got here.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:04:26] You talked about the size of the space, and I want to talk on that. The DI was labelled the largest shelter in North America. Is that notoriety that you want to have as a shelter? Is is, is that good? Is that bad? What does that look like when you're coming into a big space?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:04:42] You know it, I believe, it currently is the second largest in North America. There is one other that has a bit higher capacity. I think, you know, ideally we want to be known as the most effective housing-focused emergency shelter in the country and North America for that matter. So I think, you know, the size, there's certainly economies of scale that come with the ability to shelter a thousand people on any given night. Is it ideal? No. You know, I think we've worked really, really hard to house a number of our long-term shelter stayers to get our numbers down. And, you know, now right now, we're averaging around 450 individuals on any given night. On any given 24-hour period, it's closer to 700 because people do access services here that don't sleep. But I think, you know, if we could do it all over again, probably would look at doing it differently. You know, large, crowded congregate settings are really difficult to make personalized individual connections with everybody. So I think we do a great job working with what we've got at the moment. But, you know, I think as we look future-focused, I think we have to ask ourselves, Are there better ways? And I think that there are.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:06:09] And I want to talk about that. But before we do, what I'd love for you to do is give us a sense of who these people are. I think so often when you read about the social sector, if you're not in the social sector - it's the term, I mean we use it, I use it too - individuals and people, and it's a very high-level term as opposed to this is the actual story of these people. Can you give us a sense of the type of people and maybe some specific examples of who's coming in there? Because I think that there's a misperception of everyone's an addict or everyone's this or everyone's that. Who is using the drop-in center?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:06:48] Well, I mean, I wish I could answer that question in a concise way. I think, you know, you're exactly right. People in general, I think, think of homelessness or individuals experiencing homelessness as this like homogeneous group that have a lot of similarities. Well, I can tell you it's extremely diverse. There is no typical person that accesses our services. We have people of all different age groups over the age of 18 up to, you know, we've had people in their 90s come to us. There are, gosh, if you were to like really look at the sort of the sub-sections of those using the services, I mean, there's at least 10 to 12 different types of groups of people that all have very different needs. Right? We've got men and we've got women. We've got, you know, like I say, all the different age groups. We've got non-binary individuals, we have Indigenous folks, we have refugees, we have, you know, new Canadians. There is no typical scenario. One thing that is important to note that, you know, a vast majority of the people that access our services are in and out very quickly. Most of them are able to self-resolve their experience with being unhoused. We're here to provide a soft landing pad, ability for them to regroup, get their bearings back straight, and get back out into community.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:08:30] But then there is, you know, 20% of the population who are much more complex. We do see a lot of mental health, undiagnosed or misdiagnosed untreated mental health issues. With that often comes some pretty acute and chronic addiction issues. I think one of the things that is, I feel confident in saying, is a common theme for those that are with us for any length of time is experience with some pretty significant trauma. So I think if there was going to be one sort of common theme, I think honestly it really comes down to experiencing trauma, whether that be, you know, childhood neglect, abuse, sexual abuse, experience as a child soldier, you know, violence, all sorts of different experiences that are really impactful on people. And when you have lost your support system or didn't have a strong support network or system in the first place, it's really hard to do that on your own, to work through that trauma. So we're here to help guide people on that journey as best we can. We can't be everything to all people. So we really rely on our partnerships with other organizations who can provide some of that more professional assistance where needed. But there is no typical picture of people that walk through our doors, and it's different on any given day.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:10:20] Which is challenging to deal with because you can't just take a cookie cutter solution and move it forward. So then if we talk about the concept of ending chronic homelessness, cities have said they've done it before and then they end up back. How, when we talk about, we're talking about taking ideas and theories and putting them into practice, how do you end or at least mitigate this chronic homelessness when we're dealing with trauma and we're dealing with these mental health challenges, what's the approach?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:10:50] Well, the approach is housing first and foremost. You know, cities and communities need to be willing to support and accept deeply affordable housing. To support, fund, and accept the support services that need to go along with it. To support, fund, and accept the health services that need to go along with it. All with the aim of helping people exit their experience of homelessness. If there is no housing available, you will never solve homelessness. It's actually a very simple concept and often gets, you know, people aren't looking at it as what has to come next. Right? So I think, you know, deeply affordable housing and affordable housing is the number one, should be the number one strategy.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:11:44] When you look across the country, I mean, that's the problem everywhere.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:11:48] Yeah. And it's just getting worse. And then, you know, people complain that homelessness is becoming more visible as cities become less affordable. Well, I'm not sure what you expect.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:11:59] Absolutely.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:12:00] Right? Like it's really not rocket science. Sorry to sound a bit condescending, but it really is... It's... Homelessness is a very complex issue, but there are pretty simple solutions to it and it really comes down to a lack of affordable and deeply affordable housing. Now, some people will always need extra supports that go along with that, right, in order to help them maintain their housing. Say, for instance, you know, people with brain injury may need to be in a long-term care setting. So it's not just a matter of giving everybody keys to a home and you're done. It is more complicated than that for some, but for many, all that's needed is assistance with some financial barriers that they've encountered and their, you know, rapid rehousing works. And yeah, the answer ultimately comes down to housing.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:13:03] How do we move the needle there when we talk about, and not just in Calgary, but when we talk about, let's talk about nationwide. You're dealing with cities of different sizes and scope, but it's all, as you've articulated very well, it's the same problem. So how do we start? Does it start with the community getting a better understanding? Does it start with more advocacy? How do we start to move that needle and help people understand the greater issue?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:13:32] Well, if I had that figured out, wouldn't that be great?
Melanie Nicholson: [00:13:36] Right?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:13:38] But I think, you know, from a community perspective... You know, we hear a lot of talk and words around inclusive communities and community for all. They're really just words, I think, you know, when you look at the amount of nimbyism that comes up for any development that even mentions affordable housing, here's so much stigmatization and mythology, quite frankly, around who needs affordable housing and what what affordable housing would bring to a community. And I think what we really need to focus on is moving from Nimby to Yimby so that communities are saying, yes, in my backyard. We want to have diverse socioeconomic statuses in our neighborhood. We want people of all shapes and sizes and abilities in our neighborhood. And how we do that, I'm not sure yet, but I think we just have to keep talking and we have to keep sharing positive impact on the community as a whole. When people are living in their own homes as opposed to in tents, on the street, or in a shelter.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:15:06] It changes the entire dynamic.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:15:08] 100%.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:15:11] Can you share with us? I imagine over your experience in years, you've worked with people that have been in this state of struggle and have found their way into housing and how their life has changed. Can you share with us some of those so people can start to grasp their, wrap their head around what that can look like for someone and how it can change their entire trajectory?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:15:35] Wow. Well, there's, you know, there's lots of great stories. There's one individual in particular that always comes to mind for me. This individual had, you know, I'm not even going to call them a shelter stayer, they, you know, the DI had become their residence, had become their home. He had resided here in shelter for many, many, many, many years. And he is a very gifted, talented, articulate, smart man. He's an artist. He's a carpenter. He's a beautiful soul. And I first met him actually, was long before my tenure as an employee here at the DI. He came and did some carpentry work for me at my home just through some connections that I had and got to build a relationship with him. And, you know, he knew my kids and made art for them, made, you know, paper, you know, art paper. Yeah. Just beautiful, beautiful stuff. He's a writer, musician, like you name it, he can do it. And, you know, his struggle was really an issue with alcohol. And it really held him back in a lot of ways. And I think until we made our shift to be a very housing-focused emergency shelter, we really worked very intentionally with those people who had been here for a long time to get them housed. He'd given up on the idea of even thinking he would ever have his own place, like it just wasn't in the cards for him.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:17:22] This was as good as it gets, and I guess I'll be happy with it. You know, we really pushed him to move into his own apartment. You know, he needs, he has supports that come along with it. But the level of alcohol consumption has gone down considerably. He has set up a little artist studio on his balcony. He still plays music. Pre-COVID there was a piano, a public piano downtown, and he would go every morning and play the piano as people were entering the office buildings to go to work. And that was one of the things that he loved doing. But yeah, he's thriving. He's thriving in his new place. He still, we still stay in touch. We text each other every couple of months just to check in and say hello. And you know what? He is really, truly my inspiration in many ways to keep going because this work is really, really difficult. I think it's probably some of the hardest work that there is. And I think of all it takes is one, all it takes is one to keep you going. And we have, certainly have many more than one.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:18:41] Well. And if the focus of the DI has shifted to that housing focus model, then hopefully you see more and more and more and more.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:18:51] Yeah, I think, you know, since we made our shift, really in 2018 was when it really started to pick up some steam. And, you know, we've housed over 2200 people since that time and our return to shelter rate is less than 5%. So.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:19:08] That's amazing.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:19:09] Yeah, it's phenomenal. And that's a real testament to the work of the frontline staff who are working with individuals, getting to know what their personal needs are, what their personal desires are, and really taking the time to get to know them, to match them to the right housing program or in community so that they have the opportunity to thrive. It's not just about getting people out and into a house. It's about--
Melanie Nicholson: [00:19:35] It's the right one?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:19:36] It's the right one. And you know, for us, getting someone housed is, it doesn't stop there. What has to happen once they're housed is they need to integrate into their new community. So they need to have, you know, a medical home. They need to have a family doctor. They need to know what amenities are in the neighborhood. You know, ideally help them to connect to volunteer opportunities so they can meet more people in the neighborhood and really encourage them to access the services that are available where they are now, not come back to the DI to get what they need. That's not helpful. What they need to do is work within their new community to establish their roots, just like you or I do.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:20:26] I was just going to say, just as anyone, you move into a new neighborhood, so how do you feel more settled into that community? What's the wrong, I think this is important for people to understand that it's not just, it's not good enough to just say, here's a house, let's put anyone into the house, the right house matters. What is the wrong house for someone or housing option for someone, where things can go wrong and people don't follow that?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:20:54] Well, I think, you know, where I mentioned, you know, some people that come through have some really complex needs that, you know, that they're not able to live independently without supports. So, you know, there's there's waiting lists for those, that type of housing. And that's just the way it is. But I think it's about making sure that, you know, whoever that operator is or service provider is in that housing program, has a really clear understanding of what the needs are for this person and that we make sure that like, staying in shelter is not ideal. But I would much rather that we waited for the right placement and the right program rather than set people up to fail and have to come back again.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:21:49] So it's more sustainable.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:21:51] Yeah. And you know, we work with, you know, other housing providers and we'll, we want to do warm handoffs and make sure that that continuity of care is there. And, you know, quite frankly, the reality is also that there's types of housing and programs that are needed that just don't exist right now. At the drop in center, we really are the catchall of really all the failures of numerous systems converging together. We are the catchall. And so we've got some really, really challenging folks here. But we do what we can with what we have to try to meet their needs. There's certainly... You know, some days I really think of the DI in some ways as a de facto psychiatric institution without the appropriate supports and care that people deserve. And we can do, we're continuing to advocate for, you know, closing those gaps and those housing programs that don't currently exist or that there aren't enough of.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:23:01] What's one that doesn't exist that you'd like to see exist, that could exist, if the, I mean, obviously anything can exist with resources and the right people at the table. But if you could pick one that doesn't exist right now in our community that could, what would you like to see?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:23:19] Well, I think one thing that's really missing is that really high needs intensive supportive housing where there's 24-hour supports on-site. Yeah, that's a big gap. That's a big, big gap. And you know, with the appropriate, like, mental health supports and physical health supports and social supports, emotional supports, spiritual supports, you know, there are, we've got probably 150 people that we're aware of that currently could use that type of housing here at the DI.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:24:00] When we look at systemic improvements across the country, can Calgary be a leader here?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:24:08] I think we already are. To be honest, I think, you know, one of the great things about this city and this nonprofit sector is the level of collaboration, information sharing, open sourcing of resources. It's unlike I've seen in other cities. And, you know, as I mentioned in my previous career, I've been in a lot of different jurisdictions dealing with this type of issue or these types of issues. And Calgary is really unique in terms of the spirit of collaboration and putting the client first, not about the agency, it's about the client. And, you know, many of us share the same people. You know, people will often be referred to as a DI client, but rest assured they are also accessing services in many other organizations. They just happen to rest their head here.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:25:02] Right.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:25:03] So I think that we are on the forefront in that way. And I think, you know, with the DI being, quote-unquote, one of the largest homeless shelters in North America, our shift, our transformation to being housing-focused, I have to believe, has played a part in Calgary being one of the only cities in the province of Alberta that's actually seen a decrease in the numbers of homeless people. At that point in time count this year.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:25:36] Well, congratulations on the work you've done. It's incredible. And I, it's a story I've followed. And one I continue to want to follow because I think it's so important as a greater community that we know how we can support and what people can do. So that is how I'd like to end. My question to you is what can people do today? Not necessarily people working in the sector, but general population of Calgary? How can we as a community help with this challenge? And whether it's learning more or advocating, what can we do to help our collective neighbors succeed?
Sandra Clarkson: [00:26:13] Well, I think, you know, of course, there are the first things that come to mind about, you know, share your time, share your talent, share your treasure, donate, volunteer, get involved with the community-based organizations that are of interest to you. Those things are always welcome and much needed as it's an under-resourced sector. But I think I would also challenge people to don't just walk past someone. You know, say hello. Engage. Connection. Connection is key. We need to start seeing everybody as human beings and not looking at the unhoused as 'other'. Or 'those people'. That's something that doesn't cost anybody a thing and is really impactful. I think, you know, get to know if there's developments going up in your neighborhood and there's affordable housing, get to know the provider, ask the questions. Don't just blanket no, no, no. Think about how those developments can actually enrich and add to your community. Yeah. Learn. Learn to say yes more and no less, I think, are some key pieces. And if we want to have and be inclusive communities, then we have to just stop saying the words and put action behind it.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:27:51] And inclusivity starts with saying yes.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:27:53] Yes, it does.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:27:55] Perfect. I think that's such a beautiful place to end. Sandra, thank you so much for this conversation. It's so important. I'm such a big believer of education and the more you know, the more you feel informed and can then make more educated decisions. So this is what these conversations are about. So thank you so much for participating.
Sandra Clarkson: [00:28:15] My pleasure. It has been a real treat to have this conversation with you today. Thank you.
Melanie Nicholson: [00:28:23] Affordable housing and looking at people and remembering that they are people, so important. My mind is whirring from that conversation. So many profound pieces of insight from Sandra. Sandra, huge thank you for joining us today. Thank you for listening. Please like, subscribe, and consider giving us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. We'll catch you next time on It's a Theory.